多元团队在北京的设计冒险

淘宝店、外国人、胡同、做设计，这一系列关键词组合在一起虽然不明意味，但因为奇怪足以引起好奇。这些是本次设计街坊的访谈对象，设计工作室LAVA的标签。

这个坐标北京的外国设计工作室，疫情前一直保持着一半外国人一半中国人的“混血”团队配置，在胡同以及各种博物馆美术馆与电影节开展设计活动。但在过程中，如何沟通、结合东西方文化、丝滑流畅地做设计？本次设计街坊，带着对LAVA的好奇，我们进行了线上提问。

LAVA北京是一家位于北京的国际平面设计公司，同时也在阿姆斯特丹设有办公室。北京工作室专注于视觉与平面，所有作品都是源自于简单的概念。其中文名”熔岩观 ”来得很简单，加入“观”字是为了更容易注册商标。

▲快樂 All-IN

当我们问起LAVA为何选择北京而不是别的城市时，主理人Celine森林说：“我没有选择北京，是北京选择了我，哈哈！”最初森林受邀去中央美术学院做工作坊，随即爱上了这里的活力与无序，想呆久一点。

机缘巧合，LAVA也正好有意愿在中国设立分公司，虽然一开始考虑过别的城市，但因为LAVA喜欢文化项目，认为北京是沉淀了最多中国文化的地方，便这样在北京做设计做了快十年。

▲LAVA团队

店：在北京呆了近十年，现在中文水平怎么样？

LAVA：学习中文是终生大事！但因为工作很忙，身边也有很多国际友人，我并没有把学习中文放在第一位。不过我对中文双关语小有研究，有些甚至被我的同事称赞还不错，至少他们表面这样讲，哈哈哈。比如，我把我们的夏校项目取名为“三个月热度”，为gay设计的T恤还玩了个谐音梗，”gay你点颜色看看”，新年贺卡叫“红包鸡丁”（宫保鸡丁）。

Chinese study is for life! Being busy at work and having lots of international friends hasn’t helped to really prioritise Chinese language studies.I did come up with some puns in Chinese. Some of them were even considered ‘okay’ by my colleagues, at least so they say, haha. For example ‘三个月热度’ for our Summer School program. ‘gay 你点颜色看看’ for our gay t-shirt and ‘红包鸡丁’ for a new year’s card.

▲Gay你点颜色看看

店：在设计过程中，语言或者文化的不同会成为你们与客户沟通的障碍吗？

LAVA：当然啦，很多时候如果我能跟一些中国客户直接交流会便利很多。但偶尔我也会觉得翻译或许救了我一命，它能避免我以极度直接的方式去表达。总的来说沟通还是没啥大问题。这样也能让我们的设计理念保持简单、直接。

Of course. In many instances it would be easier if I can talk to some Chinese clients (that don’t speak English) directly and choose my own words. But I also sometimes think that a translation of my thoughts perhaps saves me from saying things too directly or in too Dutch a way. In the end I have mainly been able to communicate just fine. Also a good reason to keep our design concepts simple and straight-forward.

▲「里外里」快闪旅行社

店：这种较为直接的沟通方式是不是会让你们不那么受到设计方面的制约？因为我们发现，中国人骨子里是很怕起冲突的，以至于很多设计师在最后会选择不沟通、大部分时候直接妥协。

LAVA：我认为客户会选择和我们工作是因为他们想要我们的意见。我和我的团队总是对客户的反馈充满疑问。我们是真的想理解项目背后的逻辑，才能够想出合适的视觉解决方法。

I think clients choose to work with us because they want our opinion. Me and my team always question the feedback. We really need to understand what’s the reason for it, so we can think of a suitable visual solution.

▲窗口服务

店：对比荷兰工作和中国工作，与同事相处有什么不同吗，对于「中国工作中“关系”占比极大」这种观点是否认同？

LAVA：人们总得有点喜欢你才会委以项目，不是么？传统的“关系”观念在我看来已经有点过时了，许多中国客户找到我们，表示很喜欢我们的作品，开门见山，想立马谈合作。没有所谓的吃饭喝茶，从大家的时间管理上来说，非必要不吃饭，哈哈。但是这也可能是因为我们在北京，而不是南方城市。

People have to kind of like you to give you the assignment, no? The whole traditional 关系 idea is a bit out of date in my opinion. Many modern Chinese clients find us, like our work, and want to just get down to business. No dinners or teas necessary, it eats out of their timeline, haha. But that could also be because we’re based in Beijing, not the South.

▲LAWAAI

店：开始项目时，拿到一个主题会如何进行调研？

LAVA：嗯...调研始于一个清晰的好brief。如果拿到的信息只有一些空洞的词汇，例如“可持续”、“高级感”、“国际化”，就有点难找到一个使我们兴奋的切入点。我觉得我们工作的一部分就是在与客户的初次会谈中，从客户的话语中捕捉一些有趣的文字，那些能激发我们的视觉想象、不那么直白表达主题的文字。

Hmm.. research starts with having a good briefing. If the only input you are given are words like ‘sustainable’, ‘premium’ and ‘international’ it’s a bit hard to find an entry point that will lead to something exciting. I think it’s our job to get some interesting words out of the client at our initial meeting. Words that inspire us in a visual way and aren’t too obvious to the topic.

▲2022年虎年新年贺卡

LAVA：举个例子，我们曾在一家串串店和老板谈了很久，最后想到了“冲突”的概念。这就是一个很酷的起点，设计师能从很多方面进行视觉化。

An example of this is a 串restaurant where we talked with the owner for a long time and we came to the idea that the concept of his place was ‘conflict’. Now that was a cool starting point that designers could visualize in so many ways.

调研可以从很多角度开始：查阅相关主题的资料书籍、过滤出一些有趣的文字或者事实现象、尝试着挖掘这个项目的本质。调研也可以是视觉的，看艺术作品、历史影像资料等。然后，你的灵感就会突然在某个瞬间，随机地冒出来。不一定非得在办公室，通常是在自行车上、浴室。

After that the research can start in many ways: reading up on the topic; sifting out some words or facts that seem interesting; trying to find out what this assignment is actually about. Research can be visual as well. Looking into artworks, historical pieces, etc. After that an idea can come up at any time, doesn’t have to be in the office. On the bike or in shower are the usual suspects.

▲硬舌烧烤

店：这算是你们得出来的设计方法论吗？如果是的话，你们的设计师都会同样地使用这种“调研”方法去做项目吗？

LAVA：我并不是真的在等待灵感出现，设计是勤奋艰辛的工作。你必须坐下来，写下关键词，和同事协商、头脑风暴。你不能只是等待。在完美理解需求之后，有时候确实灵感会在不经意思考的瞬间闪现。但总的来说，我不会说这是我的方法。如果你的想法没有变成精彩的草图，第二天就接着尝试。在工作室我们都用这种方法，我们很注重概念和草图环节，这是设计的基本。

I’m not really waiting for ideas to come up, design is just hard work. You have to sit down, write keywords, associations, brainstorm with colleagues. You can’t just wait for a design to ‘come up’. After a good briefing, it does sometimes happen of course, that a design idea does just come into the mind when you aren’t thinking about it, but overall, I would say it isn’t my method. If your ideas don’t turn into something cool straightaway in sketches, keep trying the next day. In the studio we all use this same method. We all pay a lot of attention to the concept and sketch part. This is the basis all other design will come from.

▲肖像系列 - 中法文化之春

店：从芝麻开门可以看到你们从国内电商平台淘宝得到了许多启发，这其中吸引你们的部分是什么？

LAVA：淘宝很疯狂，也很怪奇，这是我们都很喜欢它的一大原因。那种来自淘宝店家的业余设计很棒。我必须得说，就连淘宝也在变得专业起来了。在过去更容易找到这种业余猎奇的设计，现在变难了，但这不代表我们会停止寻找、做《芝麻开门》。相反，我们接下来将要和一组设计师和写作者一起做两期，我为今年将要出版的下一期感到非常兴奋。

It’s so crazy and weird. That’s what we all like about it. The amateurish approach of the sellers to visualise their product’s quality is awesome and the kind of things you can find are just great. I do have to say that even Taobao is getting more professional. I think it used to be easier to find these weird and amateurish gems than it is now. It doesn’t mean we stop trying. On the contrary. We will make the next 2 issues with a group of designers and writers. Excited to launch the next issue later this year.

店：上述提到的这种基于本土文化自发创作的项目对于Lava在中国做商业项目的补充意义和价值是什么？

LAVA：尽管我们以商业项目为主，但我们每年会抽时间，起码做一个自发项目。在这两者之间保持平衡很有益处，做一些能够让我们的设计师保持启发、主观能动的设计，仅仅为了乐趣，而不是为了工作。但这不代表我们的自发项目会像公园散步那样轻松。对我们的设计师来说，做自己的客户、为自己做决策，并不容易。

Although we mainly work on commissioned projects we do take our time to do at least one self-initiated project a year. It is good to have a balance. To keep our designers inspired, motivated by doing something you feel is important or fun. By doing something that isn’t work. This doesn’t mean it’s a walk in the park. For our designers to be their own client, to decide the direction themselves, isn’t always easy.

▲句句兽充满灵性的动物们

LAVA：我真的很希望这些自发项目能在发掘设计的乐趣、设计能做什么这件事上与解决客户的商业需求之间保持平衡。此外，自发项目能让我们被更多人关注到，甚至是我们的潜在客户。一些自发项目的有趣想法也来自于午饭后散步消食，画草图或喝酒的时候，让这些想法溜走太浪费了。

I do hope these projects keep the balance between feeling relevant and exploring what design can do, and dealing with client’s expectations and needs. Next to that it can bring attention to us and show potential clients what we are about. So many fun ideas come up during lunch walks, in sketching or over a beer. Too much of a waste to let go of them.

▲2021 年 CHIC 時裝展

店：对于目前哪个作品是特别满意的，觉得是代表作？

LAVA：额...真的很难选出来哪一个，我们做了太多项目。每当做年终回顾时我都会很受启发，哈哈。我想那个记忆最深刻的项目应该是Mobile Design Agency（移动设计公司）。尽管这是非常久远的项目了，我觉得可能是这其中表达的态度吸引了大家。直接交流，使得设计以一种直接的目的、简单明了易懂的方式呈现。在某种程度上，这个方式直接延续到了我们后来的很多项目里，尽管从面馆到中国电影协会，面对的是更大的客户。

Pff… really hard to pick out one, we do so many projects. If I see a year overview I’m always impressed, haha. I guess the one that has been coming back to us a lot is the Mobile Design Agency. Even though it’s a while ago, I think it’s the attitude that appeals to people. Making direct contact, making design with a clear purpose in an understandable way. In a way all of our later projects share that approach, even though the clients became bigger. From noodle shop to China Film Association.

▲移動設計公司

店：由于Lava也常做学校的讲座，在和中国设计专业学生接触的过程中有更直观地感受到东西方设计的异同吗？

LAVA：最初就是工作坊使我来到了北京，疫情之前两年，我把设计教学作为兼职，非常有趣。我自然能感觉到这里的学生很有才华。

It was teaching a workshop that brought me to Beijing in the first place, and I taught design in Beijing part time for two years before the pandemic. It was a lot of fun. I think local students are talented for sure.

▲百年安全木柱

LAVA：我确实做了一些小组评价，就像我们工作室里经常做的那样。你可以跟别人学习很多，也可以解答别人的设计疑惑。总的来说，我是一个坚持由下而上方法论的人，也喜欢这样教学。盲目地跟从老师不是我想要在课堂上看到的，挑战、互动、独立思考才是。

I definitely made a case for small group reviews, as we do in our studio all the time. You can learn so much more from each other and can help solve each other’s design questions. In general, I’m a fan of the bottom-up approach, and like lecturing with that in mind. Blindly following the 老师 isn’t what I want to see in class. Challenge, interaction, and independent thinking are.

▲三个月热度夏季工作室

店：那你们觉得中国设计和其他国家相比，区别应当是什么？

LAVA：中国文化非常丰富，充满了各种故事传说、隐喻寓言、典故金句供设计师去使用，绝对可以说是一个文化金矿。

Chinese culture is so rich and full of stories, metaphors, sayings for designers to use, it’s an absolute goldmine.

所以比起分析人与设计的不同，我更倾向于首先聚焦在相同之处。中国有很好的设计思考，就像其他地方一样。当然了，中国设计师在社交媒体平台上看起来也和其他国家的一样。设计师喜欢建立联系。在这里你看到的趋势，别的地方也都是一样。

So instead of parsing people and design for differences, I try to focus on the similarities foremost. China has great design thinking, just like everywhere else. And yes, Chinese designers look on instagram and international design blogs, just like designers in other countries. Designers like to feel connected. Trends you see here, you’ll see everywhere.

店：中国的设计工作室或设计师里面，你们比较认可的是？

LAVA：中国国内的，我们喜欢KauKau，应永会和Plastered 8，Untitled，王志弘。新加坡的Foreign Policy我们也很喜欢。

We like Foreign Policy (Singapore), KauKau (Shanghai), Yingstar (Ningbo) and Plastered 8 (Beijing), Untitled (Macau), Wang Zhihong (Taipei)

店：你们对中国文化什么部分最感兴趣，未来想要尝试这方面的项目？

LAVA：目前，我们认为最有趣的中国文化项目之一是Drunk Poetry。

One of the most fun Chinese cultural projects we did was Drunk Poetry.

▲英雄醉酒

LAVA：未来梦想为博物馆或者足球队做设计。更多餐饮品牌也不错，因为我们设计师的胃口都很好。至于剩下的，就随缘带给我们惊喜了。这是我喜欢中国和中国文化的理由，可能性是流动的，在你意识到之前，另一个理想工作又出现在你眼前。

Dream projects for the future are a museum and a football team. More F&B branding we are always think is very fun, as we have a healthy appetite. For the rest we’d like to be surprised by whatever comes our way. That’s what I love about China and Chinese culture. Possibilities are fluid and before you know it, another dream job lands in your lap.

▲藝術獨立空間藝術節2019

店：之后还会继续留在中国吗？国内的疫情对你们有影响吗？

LAVA：新冠疫情的政策使得我们不可能再保持一半中国人、一半外国人的团队配置。我真的认为这使我们疏离了，有意想恢复。过去几年，我们还没有完全不受束缚和限制地可以去做社区和胡同的相关项目，很遗憾。甚至在北京的街头，人们会发表一些反外国人的观点，对此我无能为力。但我们还不会考虑搬走，因为这里还是有些灵光一闪的希望在的，柳暗花明又一村嘛。

The COVID policy made it impossible for us to keep out studio balance half Chinese, half foreign. I really think that sets us apart, so would like to get that back. We haven’t been able to be free and do community or hutong projects in the past years, which is a shame as well. Even in the streets of Beijing, people are voicing anti-foreign sentiments, which I cannot help but associate with COVID. We won’t be moving any time soon though, as there are flashes of light every now and again coming from the end of the tunnel.

接到LAVA的回答后，我们感到很多能量。因为疫情之下，设计便利店也受到不少影响，而LAVA的观点很乐观，这份活力也感染到我们。