IDD | 对话巨匠 : 走进全球最大建筑事务所Gensler

特别鸣谢 | 首席领先伙伴

RARA 系统定制家居

以构建国际领先的系统定制家居品牌为理念

对“IDD世界领先设计对话”的支持

IDD世界领先设计对话，是广州设计周联合GIA广州设计周全球伙伴联盟中的中外设计领先机构、组织和媒体发起的一项对话世界设计领先者的国际设计交流计划，IDD世界领先设计对话以「MASTER MIND巨匠的思索」为思想探寻的的主旨方向，希冀通过与世界领先设计巨匠对话，探索世界领先设计思想，以世界领先推动中国领先，以中国领先影响世界设计。

IDD世界领先设计对话 · 宣传片

十几年来，广州设计周对于中国设计与世界领先设计思索的交流对话从未停止，IDD世界领先设计对话以对话巨匠、发掘新声、臻选杰作三大内容版块构建年度运营体系，由此推动世界领先设计与中国设计之间的对话交流和发展。

对话巨匠，追随领先

Dialoguing With Masters To Follow The Leading

IDD将面向世界各国在设计领域具有领先建树、实践和思索的业界翘楚或机构，并联动中外领先设计机构、组织和媒体共同推举，每年甄选“IDD年度设计巨匠”，全年通过登门访谈、演讲论坛等形式对话“IDD年度设计巨匠”，探寻巨匠的思索，策划形成访谈视频、专题、出版刊物等内容，分别在HKDC香港设计中心的BODW+/viuTV进行全球播放，并在中外设计领先传播平台和渠道进行宣发和展示，希冀汇集世界领先设计思索，启迪中国乃至世界设计产业的更新发展。

对话巨匠追随领先 | VOL.3

Gensler

美国 | the USA

Gensler

Gensler创立于1965年美国，是一家业务覆盖全球的建筑、设计及规划公司，拥有来自全球5,500多名专业人员组成的团队，在亚洲、欧洲、澳大利亚、中东、美洲等地共设52家分公司，为全球各行各业的客户提供建筑设计咨询服务。Gensler设计服务范围涵盖29 个领域，包括城市规划、高层建筑、综合体、办公空间、零售、酒店、机场、体育设施、文化设施、教育设施和数字体验设计。目前，Gensler大中华区（上海、北京、香港办事处）拥有近450多名设计师与行政员工。

Gensler is a global architecture, design, and planning firm with 52 locations across Asia, Europe, Australia, the Middle East, and the Americas. Founded in 1965, the firm serves more than 3,500 active clients in virtually every industry. Guided by determined optimism, we believe the power of design can spark positive change and create a future that promotes equity, resilience, and wellbeing for everyone.

- IDD对话巨匠系列专访 -

本期走进全球最大建筑事务所Gensler

对话 Gensler上海办公室联席执行总监 Todd E. Pilgreen

Gensler上海办公室设计总监梁颖欣 Corina Leung

Gensler上海办公室资深设计师邓伟光 Danny Tang

一起探讨世界顶尖建筑设计事务所背后的领先意识

广州设计周 x RARA x OBJEKT境界杂志联袂巨献

【对话巨匠：走进全球最大建筑事务所Gensler】访谈正片

Todd E. Pilgreen

Gensler 上海执行总监

作为Gensler上海办公室的联席执行总监，Todd领导多元化的设计专业团队，致力于推动我们在中国的设计实践。他擅长激发员工的企业家精神和创造性思维，与他的团队和客户建立信任关系。Todd拥有近三十年的专业经验，领导诸多项目在中国以及国际市场的设计和执行，其中不乏屡获殊的综合体及娱乐开发项目。加入Gensler后，Todd主持了复星太仓复游城项目。他对促进大中华区的综合体和零售中心实践起到了重要作用。他是加利福尼亚州的注册建筑师，美国建筑师协会上海分会执行委员会委员，美国城市土地研究所顾问委员会和LEED AP BD + C（环境领先认证会员）。

Corina Leung 梁颖欣

Gensler 上海设计总监

梁颖欣毕业于澳洲新南威尔大学室内建筑学专业，毕业后于澳洲悉尼开始执业，后转战上海 ,香港及新加坡继续发展事业。在从业17 年间获得国际室内设计协会（IIDA）专业会员及美国绿色建筑协会专业认证。

梁颖欣在加入Gensler前曾为多家国际建筑事务所工作，主要负责规划及设计位于香港、澳门、中国内地、东南亚以及澳洲等多个大型商业项目，对于商业零售市场具有独到见解及运作经验。她拥有全方位设计能力及与多家知名企业合作的经验，广受多个行业奖项认可。其对于设计工作持续不断的热情与投入，为梁颖欣的设计带来竞争优势和创新独特的风格。

Danny Tang 鄧偉光

Gensler 资深设计师

邓伟光出生於香港,在香港、东京和悉尼接受教育。通过参与世界各地顶尖项目的经验,包括超复杂造型和屡获殊荣的建筑和规划项目，从商业综合体到交通枢纽和医疗设施, 他在设计和交付的多个方面拥有丰富的经验和独特的看法。他不断开发新的尖端设计方法，将设计工作与客户和社区的未来需求联繫起来的。不断平衡和测试现实世界参数来设计和创新想法。邓伟光相信综合发展始终是重点，使我们能够根据对环境问题、社会经济分析和社区福祉的影响来理解、衡量和设计商业產品和空间设计。邓伟光常被邀请担任中国的各种参数工作坊的评委及导师。他的作品在英国,日本和中国发布。

深圳大运枢纽地块建筑方案

Longgang Universiade Mixed-use TOD, Shenzhen

QUESTIONS ABOUT WORK RITUAL

关于工作习惯

管理着一个260多人的设计公司，为了项目还要协调横跨了好几个时区的不同办公室的协作，您作为Gensler上海的领导人之一，一天的工作习惯和情况是怎样的呢？

Being the leader of a design firm with 260+ people, coordinating offices across different time zones for the projects, what is your typical working day like? What is your ritual?

Todd：

我工作的一天内容很丰富的。当我们进入到公司起就与同事们”通气“，明确今天要做和要发生的事情。我们是一个以人为本的组织，所以我会花了大量时间与我们的员工和同事建立真正的联系。显然，我们还有很多客户也需要日常维护和管理。几个会议之后，我的习惯是为自己留出安静思考的时间。这种时刻非常重要，我可以坐下来，从战略角度做长远的、深度的思考未来会发生什么。你知道的，我们非常忙，和在三个不同的时区的同事和客户开会，办公室里有260位设计师，而且我们的计划是继续扩张和成长。所以，一些安静的时刻是有助于我们保持专注的。公司里的每个人都需要对领导层着眼于大局的领导力有自信，在这种工作环境中才会感到安心舒适。这是我们一直去做的，也是我的工作仪式。而且，作为设计师永远不会真正“离开”工作，工作（的思考）一直伴随着我。

My day is very diverse. I make sure that when coming in we are connecting with our people. We are people first organization, so I spend a large amount of my time really connecting with our people. Obviously, there's clientele that we need to look for and there's clientele we need to manage and maintain. After a few meetings, my routine is to carve out contemplative time or downtime for myself. Those moments are very important so I can actually sit and think strategically. You know we're extremely busy and there are meeting across 3 different times zones. During the day, I will just begin to think quietly about what's going to be the next, that helps us stay focused. But you know with 260 people in this office and our plan is to grow. Everybody here needs to be comfortable and confident that the leadership has the eye on the bigger picture so that's what we tend to do and that's how I structure. Also you never really "leave" work. It stays with me.

广州海珠创新湾沥滘核心区城市设计

Haizhu Innovation Bay Lijiao Core Area Urban Design

QUESTIONS ABOUT CUSTOMERS AND FUTURE

关于客户和未来

您对中国新冠后的未来3-5年内商业综合体的使用情况有何预测？

How do you see the development of commercial complexes in China now and in the coming 3-5 years in China?

Todd：

首先，我们需要理解国内的经济。这是一个巨大的消费型经济体。我们也确实感到人们手头变得有点紧了。消费者越来越关注他们拥有的钱和可以花的钱。消费者和消费习惯的演变指导着我们的设计。因此，我们设计的零售中心专注于沉浸式环境，尤其是利用现在的数字技术。我们必须与时俱进，所以我们的零售中心设计团队一直不停地测试各种创新，我们也将手上的项目视为创新的孵化器。我们认为它是整体的。因此，我们现在的创新方法实际上是打造一种内部空间，或是空间之间，带来某种可以值得分享体验。一个适合发instagram或者朋友圈的瞬间，网红会打卡的地方，这是全新的一代（消费者和设计）。

Well, I think first of all we have to understand that this economy. It is s a big consumer economy. We do feel that things are getting a little bit tighter. People are having a little bit closer attention to their money that they have and what they spend. The changes and evolutions in consumer and spending guides our design. So our retail centers designed are focused to have immersive environments, especially now with digital technology. We have to stay relevant, so our retail center design team is doing nothing but testing innovation. Because we look at our projects as incubators. We think of it as holistic. So our kind of innovative approach right now is really to craft interior type of space or spaces in between that bring a certain experience . That's an instagrammable moment, something that can be shared or influencers are coming for it. This is a whole new generation (of consumer and design).

以客户为中心，且长期客户维护得很好，您认为这种商业成功的秘诀是什么？

How do you serve your client well？What is the "secret source"?

Todd：

一部分成功的秘诀来自于我们认为重中之重是客户关系。从创始人 Art Gensler创立公司第一天起，他的重点是客户以及了解客户的需要是什么。这意味着我们需要花费大量的时间来了解我们的客户，并专注于我们想要合作的战略客户及维护我们的老客户。你知道他们来我们这里是有原因的，我们需要确保我们了解这个原因并反馈给他们。他们可以信任Gensler作为战略合作伙伴。当然，在某种程度上，也要确保我们经济上的可持续性，这非常重要。

Part of the secret sauce, if you will, is that at Gensler we've had primarily focused around our client relationships. That's what Art Gensler was like from the very first day. His focus was about the client and the need to understand what the client is looking for. That means we take extreme amounts of time to understand our clients and focus on strategic clientele clients that we want to work with . We focus on maintaining our existing clients, which means you know they come to us for a reason and we need to make sure that we're giving back. So there's something that they can rely on Gensler as a strategic partner. We're in this for business at a certain point, but we're also in this to make sure that we have economic sustainability, which is very important.

客户有一系列的问题，而你是创意设计公司，这就是他们来找你的原因。当你与客户的商业目标达成一致时，就是客户信任你的时刻。

So clients have a set of problems and you're the creatives, that's the reason they come to you. And the moment that you're on point with your client's commercial goals is the moment that you have trust.

这就是我们与其他设计工作室的区别，我们会与客户多方面地深度合作。我们会在设计理念上合与客户作，我们内部不同公司不同专业会合作，我们还向综合设计工作室和某个设计专项的领先者开放了项目设计，我们一起讨论想法，这种讨论客户也会参与。因此，我们成功的项目是建立在成功的客户关系之上的，我们花费了大量的时间，包括我的很多时间也致力于培养客户。我们的态度是我们不会去因为有一个项目去找客户，我们去他们那里是因为我们认为可以和你一起合作做一些事情。可以是在早期阶段帮助你更好地定义你的商业模式，帮助你研究特定的地点或城市，帮助你与政府官员或规划团队面谈。我们将竭尽所能帮助您取得成功。我们的客户非常欣赏我们的这种态度。

That's what differentiates us from some of the other boutique design firms is that we collaborate with our clients. We collaborate on design ideas, we collaborate internally. We also opened the project design to to integrated design studios and design leaders and we all talk about the ideas together and the clients involved in that too. So the successful projects that we have are built around successful client relationships and we spend a huge amount of our time and a lot of my time is also dedicated to nurturing clientele. We don't go to them because there's a project we go to them to say we can do something with you and we can be there in the early stages to help you define your business model, to help you research a specific site or city, to help you talk to a government official or a planning group. We are there in any capacity to help you be successful. Our clients really appreciate this mindset of ours.

Corina：

You know we put people at the heart of every project. 以客户为中心，这也就是我的风格。会有一些客户希望我们多考虑他们的需求，或者是消费者的需求等等。为什么每个项目我都会有不一样的切入点呢，就是因为我们都是客户为中心的一个设计。

太仓复游城

Foliday Town Taicang

根据官方的数据，中国有2.6亿左右的Z世代，是现在和未来10年的消费的主力，您对这些年轻人有什么样的理解？将这些理解如何融合到设计中？换句话说，您认为什么是Z世代年轻人喜欢的好设计?

Data shows that 260 million Generation-Z in China is the major consuming power for the upcoming 10 years, what is your understanding of that? What is good design for Generation-Z？

Todd：

我相信他们更聪明。他们从出生就与电子设备为伍，这很不可思议。所以我们必须要与时俱进，（这类商业设计的）发展速度快得难以令人相信，所以我们的商业零售的设计团队不停地在测试。以我们独特创新的项目切入点来打造新的室内空间以及新的体验，制造适合拍照及发布网上的时空，适合与大家分享，或者打卡，或者有网红来关注，这是全新的一个世代（的需求）。

I believe they're smarter. they were digitally native, it's unbelievable，they're born with it，so we have to stay relevant. It's unbelievable how fast that changes,so our retail center design team is doing nothing but testing innovation, so our kind of innovative approach right now is really to craft interior types of space or spaces in between that bring a certain experience and something that's an instagramable moment, something that is sharing or being influenced or influencers are coming. This is a whole new generation.

Danny：

他们不再轻信广告推送给他们的信息，而是更愿意相信自己对这个品牌的理解，可能更愿意相信的是一直跟随 KOL 博主。因为他们会先认同博主的价值观和真实的体验，和他一整个lifestyle，即生活方式及品质的认同，从衣食住行，到用什么样的手机，开什么样的车，是一套的价值观的系统性的东西，所以未来的商业必须要理解这个事情。

首先品牌我们觉得，你要建立自己的价值观，建立这个品牌的形象，核心是把自己品牌文化拿出来才是最重要的。好的shopping-mall（商场）都是比如说几个大品牌，他们慢慢挖掘自身品牌的价值观，而且品牌到了当地之后，跟当地文化结合的一个价值观，这个才会让消费者特别是Generation-Z这代人觉得认同，之后才会来消费。所以这也是为什么突然有这么多小众品牌出现，还有特别是国潮品牌和中国品牌的崛起。

Corina：

他们也是当下我们中国消费市场的主力军，他们因为是出生在一个数码的年代。所以他们特别对于线上的一些社会平台都会关注度非常的高，所以Gen-Z是作为我们设计师希望可以深入了解的购物群体。我们其实也从Gen-Z的同事身上学到不少，比如说现在社交的一些词汇，“yyds，绝绝子，剧本杀”等，这些都是我来到大陆这边学习到的，很多Gen-Z都会先做做功课，做攻略从而了解这个产品的一个人气度啊等等，才去实体店去是进行消费的打卡。我们在为这些Gen-Z年轻的消费者在做一些特色的设计的时候我们首先针对的是要多重体验，还有沉浸式的这种购物环境。所以在很多的就是不同的一些购物空间，我们也会希望可以做一些亮点。

QUESTION ABOUT CARBON NEUTRALIZATION

关于可持续的碳中和

我们的政府和年轻人（Z世代）都非常重视可持续发展和”碳中和“等环保问题，对此 Gensler 有哪些在研发和项目设计层面有哪些好的计划，技术和举措呢？

It just happens so that our government as well as Generation-Z both care very much about sustainability and carbon neutralization issues . How do you tackle this pressing issue on research and design project level?

Todd：

我们已经承诺到2030年我们所设计的项目实现碳中和。这意味着我们设计的每个项目都需要从一开始就关注碳足迹和减少碳排放。如果你看一下时间表，我们有点落后了。因此，我们公司的领导层致力于此改善这个现状并需要确保设计会产生影响。

We've made commitments to carbon neutralization with our projects by 2030. So that means every project that we design needs to have a focus on a carbon footprint and the reduction of the carbon from the very beginning from. If you look at the schedule, we're kind of behind. So we need to make sure that there's going to be an impact and our firm's leadership is committed to that.

我们不仅在向我们的城市、我们的政府和规划团体传达这些需求、目标和想法方面，我们也是一家负责任的设计公司。当设计建设一个能源消耗巨大的项目时，我们有责任将对环境的影响降到最低。这就是为什么我们有非常严格的设计模型。比如当我们启动一个项目时，我们从一开始就关注需要达到的可持续发展目标是怎样的。而每个项目都是不同的。我们现在确定了一个所用材料的目标，不同材料在设计过程中具有一定的环保水平评级，尽可能地让项目从一开始就更环保的材料。这对我们来说是一件大事。

Not only in the aspect of communicating these kinds of needs, goals and ideas to our cities, our governments and planning groups who are there to help to facilitate, we are also a responsible design firm and when we build a project there are massive energy hogs, we have a responsibility to minimize our impact to the environment. That is why we've got very rigorous design models as we start a project we focus on a sustainability objective right in the beginning. Every project that we do and each project is different, we have now identified a materials goal that we make sure that our materials to have a certain rating in a certain application. They have become more environmentally friendly, right. It's a It's a huge thing for us at this point.

陆家嘴前滩融耀大厦，上海

Lujiazhui Qiantan Rongyao Plaza，Shanghai

QUESTION ABOUT IDD

关于IDD

作为一个设计行业的领导者的领导者，“领先”对你意味着什么？

What is leadership to you as the leader of the firm, a leading firm in the design field?

Todd：

这意味着我们要超前于他们（同行）至少5步以上。这就是为什么我们在全球各个办公室之间保持紧密的沟通联系，我们称自己为团结紧密的团队。

That means we have to stay five steps ahead of them.That's why it's so important that we have communications between all of our axis as a company as a firm, we call it a one FIRM firm.

领导力对我来说，是关于与同事一起共同提升和成长。这样做的话，就能看出作为领导和老板的很大的区别，你会获得尊重和信任。在我们这里叫作联合领导流程，从公司的顶层联合CEO开始，Andy和Diana就是这样配合的，我们这里也一样。我和我的合伙人Jennifer一起领导上海办公室，此外我们有项目组联合总监，我们坚信，作为世界领先的私人设计公司，这样多样化的领导方式，是有意为之的。我们需要自然的领导方式，我们公司的理念是关于我们的成员的成长。事实上，我们坚持的指导原则之一就是以人为本。你知道现在的项目创新性越来越强，更有创意，我们也不断地探索队员用更多元的方式来协作，科技是这些变化的背后驱动力，所以他们不需要单一维度的老板，而是需要一个领导具有同理心。

Leadership is to me, it's really about co-elevating the people that you work with.By doing that there's a huge difference, between being a leader and being a boss, you gain the respect, you gain the trust. What's called a co-leadership process starts at the top of our company, that starts with our Co-CEOs and the way that Andy and Diane have actually set up a co-leadership. We have the same thing here. We do it from office leadership you know. My partner Jennifer and I lead this office together . We have studios, individual studios that have co-studio directors. We're a firm believer that through this diversity of leadership as the leading design firm, the largest privately held design firm and that has been by design.It really is a natural way of leading and our company's vision is really about the growth of its people. Matter of fact, one of our very strong guiding principles is people first.You know business is becoming more innovative, more creative. We're seeking diversity in the way that our people are working. Technology is driving these things, so you cannot be a single dimensional kind of boss. You have to be a leader that has a little bit of empathy built in.

Danny：

我们经常谈论创意，就感觉好像是突然之间有了领导的地位。其实设计的创意没有这么简单，这个行业就是一天一天地累计你的专业知识，对生活和对空间的观察，所有这些累积下来，然后成为你的语言，这就是一个建筑师的底蕴。有了这个底蕴之下，你才可以期待有一个的创意突然迸发出来。

Gensler 这个平台有一个非常好的地方，我们的 knowledge （知识）和我们的其他组的项目知识都是很开放的。你可以学到其他组这个项目成功的地方。知识和信息在上下级和平行组之间是高度共享的。另外，通过Gensler的平台能借助到各种 consultant （顾问）的服务。各种顾问包括交通的顾问，商业顾问团队有宝贵的数据的分析，因为是长期的、系统的合作，可以一起面对甲方，所以我们会比其他小一点的设计公司拿到更多的数据和支持。所以我们的创意更多的不仅是在空间上的创意。而且是基于商业逻辑上的创意。商业逻辑上的创意在根本上改变消费的一个习惯。才可以引发空间的改变，有了这块所有设计才会成功。

您会给年轻设计师什么样的建议？

What kind of advice would you give to younger generation designers?

Todd：

我可以说，如果你想要进入到这一行，你将会深爱这行或者根本就不爱。这个工作会吸走你全部的精力，你的想法，你的专注力，才能创造出一个需要多年才会建成，且会伫立在那里很久很久的一个项目。

The only thing that I can say that I tell every one of the people that are coming in is that you either love architecture or you don't. This is something that takes your energy, it takes your thought, it takes your dedication to craft something that is going to take years to build, going to be here for years and years and years.

这点非常的“Gensler”，（创始人）Art Gensler 曾说过，”吸收最棒的人才，然后给他们的才华让路。“这点我特别有共鸣。我深信吸收到对的人才，给他们的才华让路，让他们去发挥，事情会越来越好，所以此为事业，坚持到那个节点，可以做出你最满意的设计，因为直到坚持到那个节点你才是真的准备好了。

I'm a big believer in, it's very Gensler, Art gensler said, "You hire the best people and you get out of their way". It also resonates with me and I'm a firm believer that when you hire the right people and you step aside to make room. Let them do what they're gonna do, it's only gonna get better.

所以年轻设计师们，做好份内的事，要做好长期不断痛苦努力的心理准备。总之，时机和是否准备好了很重要，而我的工作就是在适当的时候给到设计师一些需要的指引。但我的目标还是有项目会不停地进来。

So, pay your dues, get ready for a long long long struggle with this career and then get to that point where you can do your best work, because at a certain point you're ready.Timing and readiness are the key. And it's my job to watch that timing and readiness thing if they need a little bit more guidance or a little bit more oversight, I just need to keep making sure that the projects keep coming in.

中国电子深圳湾总部基地

Shenzhen Bay Headquarter for China Electronic Corporation

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